There should be a change in the rules. Although turning the image is "altering" the image there isn't a significant amount of change to the image. It's not considered "editing" in my book and I think the rule should be changed. There's got to be a way for SC to see that the image was rotated and not "edited" in anyway.
There should be a change in the rules. Although turning the image is "altering" the image there isn't a significant amount of change to the image. It's not considered "editing" in my book and I think the rule should be changed. There's got to be a way for SC to see that the image was rotated and not "edited" in anyway.
There probably is, but that's not the issue. The file has been tagged as "modified" and it is no longer an original file. The rules require an unmodified original for purposes of validation. To allow ANY "modified" file to stand in for a valid original would open the floodgates to requests for special consideration. It just doesn't make sense.
But I liked the original blue-ribbon winner. As I'm sure did many others. I know rules are rules, and if you make an exception this time you'd have to make more in the future, but still...a terrible shame. :-(
There should be a change in the rules. Although turning the image is "altering" the image there isn't a significant amount of change to the image. It's not considered "editing" in my book and I think the rule should be changed. There's got to be a way for SC to see that the image was rotated and not "edited" in anyway.
Just my opinion
naw, already tried all that with my DQ. I didn't even rotate the image, I just opened in photoshop elements and did a save as. Nothing at all was changed in the image, but photoshop added its little tag to the file. That was enough to DQ it.
They don't need to change the rules. They need to add a link to the rules to some of the threads that further clarify things.
The rule states: retain your original, unedited file (exactly as recorded by your camera), and provide it to the Site Council along with a list of your editing steps within 48 hours of any validation request. This notice with instructions will be sent to your listed email address, and will also appear on the left side of your DPChallenge home page when you are logged in. Files that have been saved or altered with any editing or transfer software are NOT originals. DNG files are not considered originals unless recorded in that format by the camera.
I think it was perfectly reasonable to expect that doing a Save As would leave the original image unaltered. And I also think it's reasonable to think that a viewer would never alter the original on the card. But all this has been discovered and talked about before. Why not put a link to this information? After my DQ I spent 3 hours searching for information wondering why I didn't have an original. I never did find the right threads -- you need to know what you're looking for. I repeat -- please SC, save people the time and frustration and make this information easily accessible! There are so many people who are trying to follow the rules but have no idea all the little ins and outs that can cause problems. This can be fixed! Add links to the threads that further clarify the rules!
There should be a change in the rules. Although turning the image is "altering" the image there isn't a significant amount of change to the image. It's not considered "editing" in my book and I think the rule should be changed. There's got to be a way for SC to see that the image was rotated and not "edited" in anyway.
Just my opinion
Nope, there isnt - if you look at an Exif, and I don`t mean just the basics but REALLY look at it there is LOADS of info in there, you will see there is no way to tell what edits have been done.
To give you an example of what a full EXIF looks like, I have posted the following from something I shot yesterday look at all the info it gives you, Lens name, serial number (I have blanked that out here), it even tells you how I have my Autofocus select setup and all my custom function settings. But it does not tell you what edits were made to a shot and thats why it is a rule stating they need the ORIGINAL UNEDITED SHOT.. it has to be a blanket policy for it to work..
Standard Information
Make: Canon
Model: Canon EOS-1D Mark III
ImageSize: 1936x1288
ComponentsConfiguration: Y, Cb, Cr, -
CameraType: EOS High-end
CreateDate: 2009:10:28 16:52:34
ModifyDate: 2009:10:28 16:52:34
DateTimeOriginal: 2009:10:28 16:52:34
ExposureTime: 1/800"
Aperture: F1.4
MaxAperture: F1.3
CircleOfConfusion: 0.023 mm
HyperfocalDistance: 220.09 m
ExposureProgram: Aperture-priority AE
ExposureBiasValue: -2/3
MeteringMode: Partial
Flash: Off, Did not fire
ISO: 320
WhiteBalance: Auto
FocalLength: 85.0 mm
FocalLength35efl: 85.0 mm (35 mm equivalent: 108.9 mm)
ColorSpace: sRGB
Contrast: Normal
Saturation: Normal
Sharpness: 4
ShutterCount: 897
LensSpec: Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II
There should be a change in the rules. Although turning the image is "altering" the image there isn't a significant amount of change to the image. It's not considered "editing" in my book and I think the rule should be changed. There's got to be a way for SC to see that the image was rotated and not "edited" in anyway.
Just my opinion
Nope, there isnt - if you look at an Exif, and I don`t mean just the basics but REALLY look at it there is LOADS of info in there, you will see there is no way to tell what edits have been done.
To give you an example of what a full EXIF looks like,
Standard Information
Make: Canon
yadayadayada
ZoomTargetWidth: 0
Very enlightening Mark. Thanks for posting. ;)
******
shucks it all Judy--I feel really bad for you. :(
I really hate to see the DQ. This issue is why I shoot RAW or RAW + jpeg. I use Photoshop Elements to download the files, and always submit a RAW file for validation.
Well at the end of the day it's just a virtual ribbon lost. People can still appreciate the photo and Judy knows that it was quite successful in the challenge. The DQ doesn't change any of that. Besides, she has over 300+ photographer favorites, which tops any single ribbon by a long shot.
There should be a change in the rules. Although turning the image is "altering" the image there isn't a significant amount of change to the image. It's not considered "editing" in my book and I think the rule should be changed. There's got to be a way for SC to see that the image was rotated and not "edited" in anyway.
Just my opinion
Nope, there isnt - if you look at an Exif, and I don`t mean just the basics but REALLY look at it there is LOADS of info in there, you will see there is no way to tell what edits have been done.
To give you an example of what a full EXIF looks like, I have posted the following from something I shot yesterday look at all the info it gives you, Lens name, serial number (I have blanked that out here), it even tells you how I have my Autofocus select setup and all my custom function settings. But it does not tell you what edits were made to a shot and thats why it is a rule stating they need the ORIGINAL UNEDITED SHOT.. it has to be a blanket policy for it to work..
Standard Information
Make: Canon
Model: Canon EOS-1D Mark III
ImageSize: 1936x1288
ComponentsConfiguration: Y, Cb, Cr, -
CameraType: EOS High-end
CreateDate: 2009:10:28 16:52:34
ModifyDate: 2009:10:28 16:52:34
DateTimeOriginal: 2009:10:28 16:52:34
ExposureTime: 1/800"
Aperture: F1.4
MaxAperture: F1.3
CircleOfConfusion: 0.023 mm
HyperfocalDistance: 220.09 m
ExposureProgram: Aperture-priority AE
ExposureBiasValue: -2/3
MeteringMode: Partial
Flash: Off, Did not fire
ISO: 320
WhiteBalance: Auto
FocalLength: 85.0 mm
FocalLength35efl: 85.0 mm (35 mm equivalent: 108.9 mm)
ColorSpace: sRGB
Contrast: Normal
Saturation: Normal
Sharpness: 4
ShutterCount: 897
LensSpec: Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II
Well at the end of the day it's just a virtual ribbon lost. People can still appreciate the photo and Judy knows that it was quite successful in the challenge. The DQ doesn't change any of that.Besides, she has over 300+ photographer favorites, which tops any single ribbon by a long shot.
There should be a change in the rules. Although turning the image is "altering" the image there isn't a significant amount of change to the image. It's not considered "editing" in my book and I think the rule should be changed. There's got to be a way for SC to see that the image was rotated and not "edited" in anyway.
Just my opinion
naw, already tried all that with my DQ. I didn't even rotate the image, I just opened in photoshop elements and did a save as. Nothing at all was changed in the image, but photoshop added its little tag to the file. That was enough to DQ it.
They don't need to change the rules. They need to add a link to the rules to some of the threads that further clarify things.
The rule states: retain your original, unedited file (exactly as recorded by your camera), and provide it to the Site Council along with a list of your editing steps within 48 hours of any validation request. This notice with instructions will be sent to your listed email address, and will also appear on the left side of your DPChallenge home page when you are logged in. Files that have been saved or altered with any editing or transfer software are NOT originals. DNG files are not considered originals unless recorded in that format by the camera.
I think it was perfectly reasonable to expect that doing a Save As would leave the original image unaltered. And I also think it's reasonable to think that a viewer would never alter the original on the card. But all this has been discovered and talked about before. Why not put a link to this information? After my DQ I spent 3 hours searching for information wondering why I didn't have an original. I never did find the right threads -- you need to know what you're looking for. I repeat -- please SC, save people the time and frustration and make this information easily accessible! There are so many people who are trying to follow the rules but have no idea all the little ins and outs that can cause problems. This can be fixed! Add links to the threads that further clarify the rules!
The rule is pretty clear, and pretty easy to comply with: copy all images from your memory card into two places--one that will NEVER be opened by any program, so never accidentally modified. The other is the source location for import into Lightroom, etc.
These two locations should either be on separate hard drives, or auto-backed-up to a separate hard drive. This approach is useful independent of any dpc entry validation considerations, and will cover you for those validation requests when they come.
Boo. Hiss. Sometimes this site feels more like an exercise in rule following than expanding creative horizons. No one would die, no ones life would change if the original winner just got what they deserved. The voters spoke as to what they liked, it should win.
Boo. Hiss. Sometimes this site feels more like an exercise in rule following than expanding creative horizons.
That may be true in some cases (it's debatable, at least) but this is not one of them. The rule being broken here is the most fundamental, rock-bottom rule we have: you must be able to provide an unaltered, original capture of your image, as verified by EXIF data, upon request. Without that rule, DPC isn't DPC anymore.
It may be worthwhile for anyone who expects that they may someday win a DPC ribbon, or even come close, to send in a shot for validation to see if your system to save the original file is working or if it is dinking the cam file with a tag when you copy it to your computer to store it.
I guess you could say that Judy's ribbon went out the "windows" on this one. It's been quite an interesting event for us to watch unfold.
Well at the end of the day it's just a virtual ribbon lost. People can still appreciate the photo and Judy knows that it was quite successful in the challenge. The DQ doesn't change any of that.Besides, she has over 300+ photographer favorites, which tops any single ribbon by a long shot.
I agree!
I whole heartedly agree with this too... We can celebrate and still appreciate this image EXACTLY as we did before.. nothing about this decision has changed my view of it.. It's not like I like it any less now...
Besides, it's better to have won a blue and have it stripped away on a technicality, then to never have won at all.. ...;-)
Well at the end of the day it's just a virtual ribbon lost. People can still appreciate the photo and Judy knows that it was quite successful in the challenge. The DQ doesn't change any of that.Besides, she has over 300+ photographer favorites, which tops any single ribbon by a long shot.
I agree!
I whole heartedly agree with this too... We can celebrate and still appreciate this image EXACTLY as we did before.. nothing about this decision has changed my view of it.. It's not like I like it any less now...
Besides, it's better to have won a blue and have it stripped away on a technicality, then to never have won at all.. ...;-)
While I agree with this, many may not discover it now that it's no longer on the front page.
