Now that we are in January the rule set for December should change should it not? If this is the case, then may I present a possible option that may keep everybody happy: --
some people seem to like the new rules, other people do not -- so maybe we could have two challenges for members per week. One of these challenges could be with editing rules, the other without. To keep things simpler both challenges could be identical and members can submit to only one of the two.
It should not be too difficult to do, and I wonder if anybody else thinks that this could be helpful?
Looking forward to reading other people's opinions.
That's a whole lot of challenges. I think it's good the way things are now... the occasional open edit challenge is sufficient.
I take it you mean before the December rules, Carolle.
I'd prefer it just the old style no-editing rules, as you say. I think Rainer's suggestion could be a good alternative though -- seems to keep everyone happy?
My idea was you just vote on the challenge you submitted to. Easier to comment then aswell :)
For me personally I think that would be of benefit. For a lot of the challenges I end up thinking 'OMG there's loads to vote on'.. I don't like only voting on some, which means I sometimes shy away from the larger challenges.
Having the challenges split into more 'bite sized' chunks would certainly make me more likely to vote, and spend more time per shot too.
I dont think two member challenges per week is a good idea. I dont want to vote on 2 contests that are the same.
I think maybe once a month use the "December rules" for members. I would really hate to see every member contest using those rules.
I dont really mind the "December rules", but I dont think it should become the "NORM"
I agree.
Despite the fact that I did not submit the December study due to time constraints, I thought it was a great challenge. From what I have seen of the photos submitted the quality of shots is very high. I would love to see this format once in awhile, maybe even once a month. This is my 2 cents anyway
Did you see a lot of DIGIART? Why would you not want to use all the tools available to you to produce the best image you can? Do you think high dollar portrait/wedding photographers give you the image straight from the negative? I don't think so! Let's not be so narrow minded about what 'photography' is or isn't. To me it's producing the highest quality work I can. Post processing either film or digital is part of the whole process of producing qreat images. I'd rather submit something that has been cleaned up and processed then a snapshot.
-danny
Originally posted by Riggs:
I dont think two member challenges per week is a good idea. I dont want to vote on 2 contests that are the same.
I think maybe once a month use the "December rules" for members. I would really hate to see every member contest using those rules.
I dont really mind the "December rules", but I dont think it should become the "NORM"
Did you see a lot of DIGIART? Why would you not want to use all the tools available to you to produce the best image you can? Do you think high dollar portrait/wedding photographers give you the image straight from the negative? I don't think so! Let's not be so narrow minded about what 'photography' is or isn't. To me it's producing the highest quality work I can. Post processing either film or digital is part of the whole process of producing qreat images. I'd rather submit something that has been cleaned up and processed then a snapshot.
-danny
Originally posted by Riggs:
I dont think two member challenges per week is a good idea. I dont want to vote on 2 contests that are the same.
I think maybe once a month use the "December rules" for members. I would really hate to see every member contest using those rules.
I dont really mind the "December rules", but I dont think it should become the "NORM"
I dont think I am narrow minded at all. Simply stating how I feel. Dont be so defensive.
Did you see a lot of DIGIART? Why would you not want to use all the tools available to you to produce the best image you can? Do you think high dollar portrait/wedding photographers give you the image straight from the negative? I don't think so! Let's not be so narrow minded about what 'photography' is or isn't. To me it's producing the highest quality work I can. Post processing either film or digital is part of the whole process of producing qreat images. I'd rather submit something that has been cleaned up and processed then a snapshot.
Sorry to disagree Danny, but I don't consider this:
a snapshot! :-D
I understand what you're saying about producing a polished final 'product', but I think allowing a great deal of editing discourages getting photography right from the ground up, which I see as being able to best use the camera itself, before it gets into PS (or the darkroom).
To me it's producing the highest quality work I can.
For you maybe, but this isn’t case for everybody. Recently a LA times photographer was fired for 'photoshoping' an image that appeared on the front page of the aforementioned paper.
My point is, that a $2 disposable 35mm cam and a $1500 SLR both take images on the same medium. You process both at Wal-Mart and you'll get nice photoalbum shots. You have a professional lab process them, and you'll get images that are far superior and worthy of framing. I think that skill in both taking the picture and processing are a requirement for this site. Yes, baby steps and learning proper technique with the camera is first and foremost, but if you can't finish your negative properly, you are cheating yourself of something that may be the best shot of your life!
My point is, that a $2 disposable 35mm cam and a $1500 SLR both take images on the same medium. You process both at Wal-Mart and you'll get nice photoalbum shots. You have a professional lab process them, and you'll get images that are far superior and worthy of framing. I think that skill in both taking the picture and processing are a requirement for this site. Yes, baby steps and learning proper technique with the camera is first and foremost, but if you can't finish your negative properly, you are cheating yourself of something that may be the best shot of your life!
I see no problem with open edit rules. As long as it doesn't turn into a digiart contest rather than a photography contest. I do not like the fact that presently we can get DQ'd for dodge/burn. Sometimes you'll photograph something that looks great without dodge/burn and sometimes you need it. It was one of the first things I was taught about darkroom processes and I wouldn't even consider printing anything without it.
Yes, baby steps and learning proper technique with the camera is first and foremost, ..
If we allow editing though, how are proper techniques encouraged? I can see it all too easy to consider editing a 'quick fix' for poor technique.
Originally posted by crabappl3:
.. but if you can't finish your negative properly, you are cheating yourself of something that may be the best shot of your life!
I can see two scenarios here:
1) Your negative is absolutely fantastic, but just needs a little tweak. If this is the case, surely a little editing won't make that much difference.
2) Your negative isn't that great. In which case, it's going to need a lot of editing. So, how great a shot is it really?
It's been said all too often 'editing won't make a poor shot good'. If this is the case, editing can equally not make a great deal of difference, even to fantastic shots.
Yes, baby steps and learning proper technique with the camera is first and foremost, ..
If we allow editing though, how are proper techniques encouraged? I can see it all too easy to consider editing a 'quick fix' for poor technique.
You can only adjust levels and colors so much before they look bad in photoshop. You can't correct everything, but you can surely bring back the proper hue and some exposure withing editing. Sure, you should try and get it right in camera, but you might not always, so having it available in editing is nice.
Originally posted by crabappl3:
.. but if you can't finish your negative properly, you are cheating yourself of something that may be the best shot of your life!
I can see two scenarios here:
1) Your negative is absolutely fantastic, but just needs a little tweak. If this is the case, surely a little editing won't make that much difference.
2) Your negative isn't that great. In which case, it's going to need a lot of editing. So, how great a shot is it really?
It's been said all too often 'editing won't make a poor shot good'. If this is the case, editing can equally not make a great deal of difference, even to fantastic shots.
Someone once said, "You can't polish a turd", and I believe this to be true. There are some images that no matter what you do, it isn't going to become an Ansel Adams, but in most cases, being able to remove an element that you couldn't in composition, or fixing a blemish here or there that distracts from an otherwise excellent shot is not creating DIGIART, it's producing as professional image as you can.
Why? I'm sorry, it just doesn't make sense to me. Why not produce a high quality shot? Guess I'm just confused as to why some people have such an adversion to why DPC shouldn't allow high quality images...
The member challenges did not go down hill last month, I actally saw some of the best work of the year... and I don't think I'd say any were DIGIART or overly processed. They were 'finished' images.
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
No one's disputing pics can be better with editing. That doesn't mean it's right for DPC.
Why? I'm sorry, it just doesn't make sense to me. Why not produce a high quality shot? Guess I'm just confused as to why some people have such an adversion to why DPC shouldn't allow high quality images...
The bottom line is I think DPC should be about actual camera use, rather than editing. There are plenty of sites for image editing, and none (that I know of) like DPC encouraging me to use my camera properly.
I'd love to think I'm swaying D+L's or the site council's opinion or the introduction of new rules, but I don't think I am, so I'll leave it at this.
