During voting, I initiated the dreaded self-abuse clause of the Challenge rules and asked that this entry be DQ'ed (my second DQ since four months into my membership began in2010. With a few days left in voting, I realized I'd uploaded a version of the image that had moved the central subject from close to the center to a placement more aligned with the rule of thirds.
Anyway... the image had received some nice comments and a score floating in the front page range. So... here it is - back on display as an opportunity to say thanks for comments that disappeared with the DQ. I also want to add a cautionary tale to others who might consider a self-DQ.
Several things occurred that I wasn't expected after asking SC to compare my entry and the original. First, I logged in one day and it was gone from the "My Submissions" sidebar. No PM in the inbox. It was also gone from my workshop and gone and didn't appear as a DQ after rollover. The comments were gone, ne'er to be seen again. I receive an email from SC confirming that the image was indeed in violation of the rules. The email also informed me that a self-DQ counts the same as a regular DQ.
Now, none of this upsets me in the least, I effed up and took my lumps. But I'm not sure now if I suspected a DQ might be coming, why I wouldn't let it ride. If I had, I wouldn't have lost comments, and others the image would remain in the rollover at the end - where it might serve others as an example about how not to be DQ'ed. Seems the self-abuse DQ may not be such a good idea.
During voting, I initiated the dreaded self-abuse clause of the Challenge rules and asked that this entry be DQ'ed (my second DQ since four months into my membership began in2010. With a few days left in voting, I realized I'd uploaded a version of the image that had moved the central subject from close to the center to a placement more aligned with the rule of thirds.
Anyway... the image had received some nice comments and a score floating in the front page range. So... here it is - back on display as an opportunity to say thanks for comments that disappeared with the DQ. I also want to add a cautionary tale to others who might consider a self-DQ.
FWIW I was voting for it to be a "regular DQ" -- we do not normally do the "self" type when there is a rules violation, regardless of who reports it, though we can take self-reporting into consideration in case there are possible penalties.
Self-DQs are typically for:
a. people who care a lot about their overall average
b. the subject of the image withdraws permission for its use for personal or legal reasons
Maybe people will re-post their comments -- it's a darn fine picture ... :-)
Wow! Any time I've asked for a DQ on my own image, I've been warned... almost in "overkill"... about all of my consequences, if I decided to continue to go through with it. Did you check your Spam folder?
Not sure I fully understand. Requesting clarification.
1. This is a dq because one bird was moved a tiny bit?
2. If this is a rules dq and not a self dq, doesn't it need to appear as such in the challenge results ?
Wbanning, sorry about your comments disappearing. That seems neither here nor there.
1. Yes
2. I thought so -- it is not the first time I am out of step with the majority, who opted to make a (hopefully) limited exception in this case (how do you think I got stuck in this job in the first place?!) ...
1. This is a dq because one bird was moved a tiny bit?
To be very clear, the bird moved more than a tiny bit. My photo was definitely a rules violation. I uploaded the wrong image (one I had modified for a different purpose). It was a space cadet move and I own it completely. When I realized it, I sent a request for SC to confirm the violation and remove it as self-DQ if it was.
BTW, Here's a pairing showing the full extent of my transgression:
As submitted: and original comp:
I had no idea what the original purpose of the self DQ was...
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Self-DQs are typically for:
a. people who care a lot about their overall average
b. the subject of the image withdraws permission for its use for personal or legal reasons
That's not me, but I expressly asked for a self-DQ and received it. I'm not in the least bit upset... just learned something important after nine years around here and want to share it.
Thank you wbanning. Appreciate the details but was hoping for further clarification from SC. Because your image does not show up in the challenge as dq'd, I actually assume the self-dq was honored and the edit wasn't enough for rules violation. (Self dq not permitted if rules violated.) If it had violated, DPCers would have needed your image to be on view in the challenge as an example of 'pushing too far' in standard editing since the ruleset is so open now.
Thank you wbanning. Appreciate the details but was hoping for further clarification from SC. Because your image does not show up in the challenge as dq'd, I actually assume the self-dq was honored and the edit wasn't enough for rules violation. (Self dq not permitted if rules violated.) If it had violated, DPCers would have needed your image to be on view in the challenge as an example of 'pushing too far' in standard editing since the ruleset is so open now.
Well... The response I got back from SC was an answer to my question about IF it violated the rules. The reply indicated it did.
From my perspective, I assumed a likely rule violation the moment I realized I had edited and submitted from the wrong file. But I did read the rules and wondered if it would be allowed. I asked SC for a verdict and requested a self-DQ if it was found to be in violation. THey did what I asked. If I had it to do over I would have asked for a DQ. So I've learned two things.
In the end, I believe that "You must... create your entry from 1 or more captures of a single scene (defined as a scene whose overall composition/framing does not change)" is why it would be a violation. Although, I guess it's possible that moving a central element the way I did could be a judgement call on "changing the overall composition/scene."
Thus this thread's value - to share with the community the details/intent of Self-DQ and to provide the lesson/example about the type of editing I did (since it doesn't remain at the end of the challenge list.
If someone from SC is reading this, perhaps a clarification of skewme's assumption on whether/why the image was deemed to be a violation could be offered.
1. The "self DQ" was in error and arose from miscommunication within SC. It should have been a regular DQ because a rule was broken. That the photographer brought it to our attention during voting is admirable, but it is still a DQ. Self-DQs are reserved for legal images that, for one reason or another, the photographer wants to be removed. As GeneralE alludes, we do occasionally make an exception but that is for images that are self-reported VERY early on in the voting, typically when the photographer didn't realize the challenge was Minimal Editing :-) Once an image has been voted on numerous times we will treat it as a regular DQ.
2. Unfortunately, "unwinding" a self-DQ is beyond even my powers as an Admin: it needs someone to go in and change the status of the image in the code, and for very good reason I don't have that access :-) In the particular instance there's nothing to be "learned" about the rules from the image, so I am going to leave it hidden: it's not (IMO) worth troubling Langdon to change it.
3. Regarding "moving a central element", we no longer make a distinction between "major" and "minor" or any other sort of element. As the rules stand, you may REMOVE any element in your image as long as you replace it with whatever the formerly-covered area would have had in it had the element not been there. In this case, for example, you could have removed the bird and replaced it with cloud, but you couldn't have left a bird-shaped empty hole in the surrounding clouds. But MOVING an element to a new place in the composition is not allowed in Standard Editing. That's an Expert Editing thing.
1. The "self DQ" was in error and arose from miscommunication within SC. It should have been a regular DQ because a rule was broken. That the photographer brought it to our attention during voting is admirable, but it is still a DQ. Self-DQs are reserved for legal images that, for one reason or another, the photographer wants to be removed. As GeneralE alludes, we do occasionally make an exception but that is for images that are self-reported VERY early on in the voting, typically when the photographer didn't realize the challenge was Minimal Editing :-) Once an image has been voted on numerous times we will treat it as a regular DQ.
2. Unfortunately, "unwinding" a self-DQ is beyond even my powers as an Admin: it needs someone to go in and change the status of the image in the code, and for very good reason I don't have that access :-) In the particular instance there's nothing to be "learned" about the rules from the image, so I am going to leave it hidden: it's not (IMO) worth troubling Langdon to change it.
3. Regarding "moving a central element", we no longer make a distinction between "major" and "minor" or any other sort of element. As the rules stand, you may REMOVE any element in your image as long as you replace it with whatever the formerly-covered area would have had in it had the element not been there. In this case, for example, you could have removed the bird and replaced it with cloud, but you couldn't have left a bird-shaped empty hole in the surrounding clouds. But MOVING an element to a new place in the composition is not allowed in Standard Editing. That's an Expert Editing thing.
Thanks, Bear... This is clear and transparent communication. I appreciate your quick response!
