I use a standard border for all of my photos becaues I know how well it looks when it prints...It's not that glamourous when it's on display but I got like 3 comments about my border already and some even rated the PHOTO on the merit of the border...Like what the heck...A border is just that...a border...I thought this was Digital PHOTO Challenge not Digital photo BORDER challenge...
I am also against the borders. I spent almost an hour yesterday agonizing on whether or not to put a border on my picture. I finaly decided not to, as I thought the picture worked best without it.
I feel that the pictures should be able to stand alone, and be judged on the merrit of the picture only, not some postcard version of it.
In the meantime, if you choose to put a border, and if IMO it takes away from the picture, then I will mark you down for it. Sorry if that bothers you.
If you are so against borders, why not just ignore them instead of marking the image down? Mark the photograph for what it is worth and then leave a comment to the photographer that the border didn't help the image sell itself.
I agree with Jak, this was my first time trying to use my standard border that I print with...Apparently people don't like it...And I can't get rid of it right now. So, instead of marking it down, just say I don't like it. It's a site about learning and I learned this challenge people don't like my border :-P
The border is part of the picture. If the border adds to the picture, I'll score it up, if it takes away from the picture, I will vote it down. I cannot see how I can not take the border into account.
I'd rather see no borders, however I understand why they have been allowed by Admin ... in case someone cropped too close to the edge, creating an unexpected border. Actually, I've seen a few of my pictures getting a bit of a "halo border" after using unsharp mask.
I don't think a border can ruine a great photo to the point that it is tanking in the challenge (unless it takes 50% of the shot + is coloured a nice doodoo coloured brown). My $.02.
I think adding the border is in line with any of the other _adjustments_ that are allowed and if the border takes away from the photo the voting should represent that. I can't think of any shot without a border that would be marked down for that fact alone - but there are several photos where there was a border and I felt it took away from the photo. In my opinion they go together and should be judged as such.
Originally posted by psychephylax:
I agree with Jak, this was my first time trying to use my standard border that I print with...Apparently people don't like it...And I can't get rid of it right now. So, instead of marking it down, just say I don't like it. It's a site about learning and I learned this challenge people don't like my border :-P
I can remember a day, Im 39 mind you :), when you got your photos back from the local drugstore and they all had white borders. Did this take away from your pictures? I dont think so.
I can remember a day, Im 39 mind you :), when you got your photos back from the local drugstore and they all had white borders. Did this take away from your pictures? I dont think so.
Ummm, then why don't they still do it?
My 2 sense... Once you add a border, it becomes part of your submission and is fair game. If I think a border hurts an image, it will hurt it's score.
One of the reasons people were calling for borders was so that their photos could be shown against a complimentary background, rather than the grey of the site, in the hope of getting a better score. You can't have it both ways.
I wasn't too enthusiastic about borders, but since I've started experimenting with them (and especially since the 2 colour border was allowed, which I was even less enthusiatic about) I have come to realise how effective a well thought out border can be.
Bottom line: you submit a single image to be voted on in it's entirety. If you don't want borders to effect your score then don't include one in your image.
If you are so against borders, why not just ignore them instead of marking the image down? Mark the photograph for what it is worth and then leave a comment to the photographer that the border didn't help the image sell itself.
You cannot ignore the border in judging the photo, especially when it is something other than a plain white border. It was put there by the author, in order to present the picture in a better light. If it doesn't do that, than it hurts it. The scoring should reflect that.
In many cases a border is a tool that helps frame the image or the shot and it can lead the mind's eye inward. We use borders in all sorts of image framing, think of a motion picture theatre were a border is vital. In television graphics it is a standard framing device for image creation too.
My point, a border is a graphic tool and should be judged along with the image. If you do not agree, try printing your favourite image twice, once with a border and once without. You will see what I mean.
I really liked (LOL) the comment above about the loss of borders in photofinishing. But, that was more of a technical process change rather than a new creative direction - one-hour photo labs and that sort of high speed processing thing.
My submission nearly had a red border on it for the B&W challenge. I am not a fan of B&W anyway and I struggled to try to add colour to the image. It did not work, so the border was dropped.
In the current challenge, the images with borders do stand out, don't they?
I can remember a day, Im 39 mind you :), when you got your photos back from the local drugstore and they all had white borders. Did this take away from your pictures? I dont think so.
Ummm, then why don't they still do it?
My 2 sense... Once you add a border, it becomes part of your submission and is fair game. If I think a border hurts an image, it will hurt it's score.
You can still get bordered prints from almost any film developer these days. Advances in film printing techniques brought about the borderless print. My point is that it sucks to think someone may get a lower mark on the shear fact, that someone doesnt care for bordered photos.
Personally, I think that to mark down an otherwise excellent photograph because the author made a foolish choice in borders is ridiculous. Anyone would think that the border cannot be removed and has therefore permanently damaged the image.
I believe it to be far better to judge the image alone, and then to advise the photographer about the bad choice of border. Only then can this site remain one about photography and not graphic art.
As usual, your mileage may vary and I respect everyone's right to disagree.
My point is that it sucks to think someone may get a lower mark on the shear fact, that someone doesnt care for bordered photos.
I agree with that point, but don't believe it's having *too* much effect on overall scores - 2 out of the top 3 in both challenges last week were bordered.
When you go for a job interview, what's one of the most important aspects? When you perfect a sculpture? When you prepare for a party? What about when you are preparing food to be served at a resteraunt?
Presentation. Presentation. Presentation.
VERY important in almost all aspects of life. When you get professional pics of your children, do you just throw any old clothes on them? Not usually (although I have seen it done). You put nice clothes on them, so the final product will look good.
Presentation.
Presentation is important. If you throw on crappy clothes for an interview, the guys going to look at you, and hire a well dressed guy. I think presentation of photos is important too, but it would have to be really really bad for it to totally ruin a shot.
On that note...I HATE putting borders on my photos. LOL. But, such as life.
If you take your camera card (or other media) to a Ritz or Wolf camera store and order their new self-service Digi-Prints, they will come with a 1/8" white border. I turn mine in for "regular" processing since I can then specify borderless prints.
But...I do that because I've already scaled it to the right size (usually with a border) and I want to avoid resampling in the printing process.
I turned in my current portrait entry with a small border because that was enough to bring the file size from 150k to 148k and made not much difference to the picture. But most of my recent entries have still been borderless...
So what Heather is saying is that she would rather go to a job interview naked than wearing crummy clothes.
Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting.....
LOL
Rob
ps -- I'm still anti-border for this site. For printing and displaying, yes. I think the photos here are meant to be compared against each other and I think the borders, while great for presentation, are not appropriate for a "challenge." But I argued myself blue in the face pre-DPC2 so I'll shutup now.
