Mrs Peacock was insanely jealous. Ever since Mr. Peacock died of consumption, Mrs. Peacock lost all of her creative inspiration. She reviled at those around her who could create better photos. Her lead pipe became her equalizer. She bashed the skulls of fourteen famous photographers before she was finally caught by those meddling kids and their dog.
Mrs Peacock was insanely jealous. Ever since Mr. Peacock died of consumption, Mrs. Peacock lost all of her creative inspiration. She reviled at those around her who could create better photos. Her lead pipe became her equalizer. She bashed the skulls of fourteen famous photographers before she was finally caught by those meddling kids and their dog.
Yeah... my answer, I would go no ones workshop, for no price and for no reason... because I don't think i would learn more than I know, and if i do, who cares. Just because some guy or girl is very successful photographer doesn't make me drool over and make me spend tons to just to see how they take photos.
It's freaking silly idea. I prefer getaways with DPC members (or other photographer "friends") and learn from each other.
I don't even know who's idea to start "workshop" other than shoe-repairs anyway.
Yeah... my answer, I would go no ones workshop, for no price and for no reason... because I don't think i would learn more than I know, and if i do, who cares. Just because some guy or girl is very successful photographer doesn't make me drool over and make me spend tons to just to see how they take photos.
It's freaking silly idea. I prefer getaways with DPC members (or other photographer "friends") and learn from each other.
I don't even know who's idea to start "workshop" other than shoe-repairs anyway.
You're silly and DEAD WRONG! Maybe you have a learning disability, ever think about that?
I've been to two so far and I scour the mags I read for more but since I live in a French society not many pro photographers come around here. The ones that do sell out.
You'll never learn anything new with an attitude like that. You seem very defensive about the whole topic. Why is that?
I'll never learn anything? Really? If I want to learn something, I would find a way. It's just the "workshop" idea what makes me upset. Why are they calling it "workshop?" and people are asked to pay tons. It's like Microsoft giving 2 days class and charging 3 grand for it. I don't like either personally. I can't learn anything in two days, waste my time and money. It's only money making IMHO.
I am self taught guy since I know myself. Learned programming, photography, web design and other many things. I was out of job for a while, but so did other people who learned from the "maters", I don't feel too bad. I can do and learn stuff by myself, and from others without paying money. Learning is not a short term thing, it's a long term thing.
Disagree? that's fine.
Maybe we should move this thread to "rant" now :-|
Let me ask this Leo, keeping on the librodo workshop topic, if it was only $5, would you go then?
Ok, let me ask you then... why would you pay a grand (and some cases more for others) to see someone shows you how to take photos? Honestly, aren't you going there to see "famous" names only and talk about it with your friends?
Here is what I would do, if librodo had a book, I would buy it for 50 dollars. I can learn over and over again with the book, or DVD more. Is that make sense?
Here is what I would do, if librodo had a book, I would buy it for 50 dollars. I can learn over and over again with the book, or DVD more. Is that make sense?
That's what Joey Lawrence did but the reaction was the same.
I think there is some envy of, or disdain for a DPC photographer that finds the measure of success that enables him to charge for what they say that they can teach.
A lot of people here have a problem with that for some reason and it's not limited to the higher priced workshop that Manny is conducting.
You'll never learn anything new with an attitude like that. You seem very defensive about the whole topic. Why is that?
I'll never learn anything? Really? If I want to learn something, I would find a way. It's just the "workshop" idea what makes me upset. Why are they calling it "workshop?" and people are asked to pay tons. It's like Microsoft giving 2 days class and charging 3 grand for it. I don't like either personally. I can't learn anything in two days, waste my time and money. It's only money making IMHO.
I am self taught guy since I know myself.
You're mostly right...but not entirely. You can learn anything on the web for free in minutes (no question) BUT some people don't grasp things from reading and threads etc. but a little hands-on push in the right direction, can do wonders...and as you correctly said DPC GTG's or those events can do the trick. I run workshops and I agree they don't have to cost an arm and a leg ( I charge $35 a head....fun and easy)...but hands-on, focused sessions that are directly applied to a topic can be very cool and effective. Seeing somebody do something in person can cut out a lot of time and effort and if they grab your camera/lights/strobe unit and directly show and explain whatever it is... that's pretty cool.
At the Germany DPC workshop, there was like a 5 minute thing where a guy explained "painting with light"..."side lighting" and he literally he spoke two sentences that really hit home, that sunk in deep with his visual and I was off and running. Hard to get that from a book or the internet BUT again, I agree you don't need to spend a ton of money when a few words is usually all it really takes. A lot of people don't have the focus and that's what I find. Some people just don't have the time to go out learn something and practice consistantly. I think people would be smart just to study the ever living shit out of images because all the information is right there...lighting, angles, pp...the crop...it's not rocket science.
I paid a few hundred for a workshop in food and honestly...I got a little out of it, maybe... a few small pearls so, it may have been worth the $250. I wouldn't have spent dime more. I actually learned more from the guy at B&H who sold me my monolights and all he said was three words to me..."create a window" (Vermeer type lighting).
Because you are learning a lot of information in a short period of time, and it is hands on, not theoretical.
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
Ok, let me ask you then... why would you pay a grand (and some cases more for others) to see someone shows you how to take photos?
Because everyone has their own way of doing things, and that's why you can learn from them. Someone like Manny has a raw talent, and to see them in person is completely different than reading it from a book.
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
I'll never learn anything? Really? If I want to learn something, I would find a way.
It's often the things you don't know about that are the most valuable. You can't look up something that you don't know exists.
If your argument is that they are overpriced, then I can agree with you. They are selling a name.
If your believe that you will not learn anything new, then I can tell you from experience, you are very wrong. If you are in a good workshop, you will learn a lot, not just from the photographer, but from the other participants.
To get back to the original purpose of the thread, I would love to participate in a good landscape workshop.
The cost can be significant, but look at it this way. You are not only paying for (a time slice of) the instructor's time, you are paying for the opportunity to focus (pun intended) on that area of photography, and to receive immediate feedback from your instructor and fellow students.
The "focus" thing is where the real value is. The benefits are:
- You are physically removed from day-to-day distractions. This is huge. I attend at least one or two conferences/workshops per year (not photography related), and I also attend a working consortium three times per year. The amount of learning that gets accomplished in these focused venues is tremendous, both because of being physically co-located with others sharing the same interest, and because of being separated from daily distractions.
- You are presented with photo opportunities that you don't normally have. For instance if you take a landscape workshop, you will normally go to an area that has wonderful opportunities for landscape work. How much would it cost you to travel to the area *without* the instruction cost?
- You have a wonderful networking opportunity, a chance to talk in depth and at length with others who are also passionate about the topic at hand.
I think that when you consider the cost of one of these workshops in the light of the above, you will understand why they can be worth the money. FWIW, in my industry (and in some others I'm aware of) $500usd/day is a reasonable cost for a seminar; some are significantly more expensive.
...If your argument is that they are overpriced, then I can agree with you. They are selling a name...
I guess that's what makes me upset the most... and yes, I would go if it would be $5 and I would buy his books/DVDs for $50-$100 there... which I bet he still is selling those even if I pay 1 grand. If his idea would be "teaching" only, I would want to be his best friend (so to speak)
...then again, this is one of the best way to make money I guess... good for them.
Yeah... my answer, I would go no ones workshop, for no price and for no reason... because I don't think i would learn more than I know, and if i do, who cares. Just because some guy or girl is very successful photographer doesn't make me drool over and make me spend tons to just to see how they take photos.
It's freaking silly idea. I prefer getaways with DPC members (or other photographer "friends") and learn from each other.
I don't even know who's idea to start "workshop" other than shoe-repairs anyway.
I don't disagree.
Two days isn't a long enough time to learn something worthwhile, I think. Though perhaps I feel that because photography's a hobby of mine, rather than a profession. All the learning I've encountered to date has been over a long time period - school 12 years (primary and secondary), university 4 years, PhD going into third year.
Maybe a workshop would make sense if it was during a photography course where you're drowned in it day and night. I don't know. For me it wouldn't be worth it.
To get back to the original purpose of the thread, I would love to participate in a good landscape workshop...
I don't know if you remember Terje but he would give a killer Landscape workshop. We've hung here in NYC (drinking and shootin pool) a few times...where I probably learned a ton about landscape (lololol) more than I could ever get from any book or tutorial but I can tell you level at which he operates is pretty incredible and even watching him shoot on the street for a laugh is quite interesting. Occasionally he travels wicked far and hikes/climbs for hours only to get a few frames...and sometimes he comes back with absolutely nothing after days and days. Wrapping your head around that is enough, in itself.
One thing FocusPoint missed is that watching a really good/great shooter shoot and studying their pace and movement is a super learning experience all by itself.
Originally posted by NiallOTuama:
Two days isn't a long enough time to learn something worthwhile, I think...
You can learn a ton in 5-35 seconds... sometimes enough to keep you pumping for years, if you get hit with a real pearl, that rings your bell. Sometimes a good teacher/photographer can hand you an epiphany in a moments time. Hard to place a price on that BUT I wouldn't easily or quickly cough up $$$ for it because the pearl may never come... also, there are lots and lots of free workshops (tutorials) out there...online...everywhere, with the same info. One thing nobody's mentioned is the social side of the experience. That's probably the best part, meeting people, beyond what you actually learn at the workshop and more of a reason to go if anything BUT again, at what cost?
