Well, the fact remains that some people think that great photography flows from luck and superior equipment. If that were true, then the wealthiest people, who are also extremely lucky, would be the best photographers. I don't think that's how it works. But, I don't know much these days.
Everyday, in my gallery, I hear people say, "You must have a really good camera and lens." or "You were really lucky to be in the right place at the right time." Yes, that daily interface with the public and constant humiliation grates on my nerves. It comes with daily contact with the retail buyer. So, I am sensitive to comments on my DPC images that ignore the attributes of the image and insinuate that the image is good in part to skill, but mostly to luck and equipment. The words are "code" to me that the amateur has no respect for the professional success. It's as if, "had the critic had my equipment and my opportunities, then they could have equalled or exceeded my effort". It's the losers' lament.
That said, my image in the simile challenge did very poorly. So the losers' lament may be my own.
I used to get into discussions on how it is all about the vision, the photographer, planning, composition, editing - camera is just a tool!
Now I just tell them, all you need is decent camera, a nice lens because thats all they want to hear after all - some people decide to buy the camera (latest and greatest) and find out the hard way and I sound modest - outcome, it increases online options of good cheap used gear for sale - more for all of us :)
Well, the fact remains that some people think that great photography flows from luck and superior equipment. If that were true, then the wealthiest people, who are also extremely lucky, would be the best photographers. I don't think that's how it works. But, I don't know much these days.
I agree with you here, but I don't see that to is what this commenter was offering. Did this picture take some patience? Was any luck involved? Could you have accomplished this with a 50mm? Or was this shot complete and total skill with absolutely nothing in play? Listen, I respect your work very highly. I believe you are one of the best wildlife photographers on this site. But to deny that luck and/or superior equipment have no bearing at all is maybe a tad arrogant. Yes, skill is primary, and you have that in spades, but this person was not making small of that at all. Though I am sure that others have on other images or in other forums. I get that myself at times.
Originally posted by hahn23:
That said, my image in the simile challenge did very poorly. So the losers' lament may be my own.
5.9 is not very poorly. It's not phenomenal but it's better than your average. And really it isn't your best work. Nice shot and all but not nearly as captivating or engaging as much of your other work. Sometimes it is hard to have a rational eye with our own work. I have gone through periods in my dpc life where I have been angered by scores and felt the voters were losers, but looking back on many of those images now, well removed from the emotion of the challenge and the fresh picture, it's hard to argue with most of the votes and scores.
And ultimately, why take what some virtual person says so seriously? Dude, you have a gallery where you show and sell your work? How crazy cool is that? So a bunch of people online at a photo challenge site score your image low and you don't get a coveted gif. You show and sell your work in a gallery! You get to spend all of your time (I guess at least most of your time) wandering in God's great creation capturing images of amazing creatures in their element. And then you sell them! Give me nothing but high fours in each and every challenge from here on out if I can have that as my gig on the side.
... but this person was not making small of that at all. ...
Hey, I have no quarrel with you or any commenter. I was NOT trying to embarrass or expose anyone. I apologize to anyone who I may have inadvertantly offended. My purpose in starting the thread was to make the point that some commenters focus on their perception of image quality being mostly related to quality equipment and luck, with little acknowledgement of skill, experience and effort. It takes a holistic approach to be a pro. In general, comments at DPC are encouraged to the nth degree. My "helpful" rate on comments offered on my images is 97%. A feedback loop on comments would be educational and instructive. But, there is such "fear" of suppressing comments that ALL comments are elevated to sancrosanct status.
There was a time period when 100% comments on a challenge were rewarded with badges... available to be placed on the profile page of members and users. For a while this caused a frenzy of robo-comments. It was not the finest hour of commenting at DPC.
So, I am sensitive to comments on my DPC images that ignore the attributes of the image and insinuate that the image is good in part to skill, but mostly to luck and equipment.
Don't let negative comments get to you Hahn (not that I think this was particularly negative). If someone took the time to comment like that on an image it obviously touched them in some way and made a strong connection. That kind of thoughtful comment should only be appreciated. Not sure why you're sensitive to any comments. Maybe the comment as a whole was just a bad example of what you were trying to say, but you obviously know you've got talent and aren't afraid to say so.
This thread seems to restate the need for an "I want critical comments / I want only nice comments" option. Does it not?
Throughout the years, when folks have said to me, "I love your photos! I need to get a camera like yours..."
I've sometimes replied (depending on whether I didn't mind offending... LOL!), "Yes, it's just like me coming to your house and enjoying a fabulous meal that you've cooked and telling you, 'That was DELICIOUS! What kind of stove do you have?'"
Yeah. Sometimes I'm obnoxious. *grin*
I usually just chuckle and tell them they really should...
I have to admit that one friend of mine told me that she needed to get a camera like mine... ONE TOO MANY TIMES.
So, the next time she and her kids came over for an event, she asked if I were going to take photos. I said, "No, I'm tired, but you're welcome to take photos with my camera, if you like..."
She said she was excited about it and thrilled to take photos of the event.
I handed her my camera, set on Manual, and enjoyed my day with the kids.
I gave her a CD of every one of her images.
She commented afterward that none of her images looked like mine. "They weren't even in focus..."
She's never mentioned getting a camera "like mine" again.
So, I am sensitive to comments on my DPC images that ignore the attributes of the image and insinuate that the image is good in part to skill, but mostly to luck and equipment.
Don't let negative comments get to you Hahn (not that I think this was particularly negative). If someone took the time to comment like that on an image it obviously touched them in some way and made a strong connection. That kind of thoughtful comment should only be appreciated. Not sure why you're sensitive to any comments. Maybe the comment as a whole was just a bad example of what you were trying to say, but you obviously know you've got talent and aren't afraid to say so.
This thread seems to restate the need for an "I want critical comments / I want only nice comments" option. Does it not?
Well, my final comment is I don't agree with those who think that image success is simply a matter of spending a lot of money on equipment and then getting "lucky". Otherwise, all comments are valuable feedback. My "helpful" rate on comments offered on my images is 97%.
Well, my final comment is I don't agree with those who think that image success is simply a matter of spending a lot of money on equipment and then getting "lucky". Otherwise, all comments are valuable feedback. My "helpful" rate on comments offered on my images is 97%.
Unless a comment is actually really NOT trying to help me/give me advice about my image, then I mark it as helpful. (for example, a political comment on an image instead of a critique of the image itself)
I appreciate anyone taking their time (that they can never get back) to comment on my image.
I listen to all comments with an open mind.
I can hear "what I want to hear" from my family and friends.
Well, my final comment is I don't agree with those who think that image success is simply a matter of spending a lot of money on equipment and then getting "lucky". Otherwise, all comments are valuable feedback.
...and having reviewed the submissions made here, I can't say that I agree with your views in this instance since this is NOT what I read in the initial comment you referred to.
You were a tad selective in your submission and read in its totality the intent of the comment is not that which you would have us believe.
i've felt, pretty much since i got involved here, that making comments was more useful for the comment giver than the receiver. it's so fricken hard to get comments during the challenge that it's pretty much a waste of time to hope that you'll improve your photography by getting comments.
on the other hand, there are a bazillion photos here to view and study. one can actually develop their ability to see images and capture better images by taking the time to comment and learning to comment.
it would be nice if the commenter had the option of making comments on photos without anyone ever seeing the comments ;-) (the only purpose here would to be able easily collect one's comments through the site, without having to maintain them in a separate document.)
it would be nice if the commenter had the option of making comments on photos without anyone ever seeing the comments ;-)
No. Whilst I fully agree with your reasoning, I think it is quite funny sometimes to see the pride of very talented photographers hurt by a quite accurate comment.
Come on Richard, you might want to try that panning shot with a longer shutter time ;-)
Everyday, in my gallery, I hear people say, "You must have a really good camera and lens." or "You were really lucky to be in the right place at the right time." Yes, that daily interface with the public and constant humiliation grates on my nerves.
What humiliation, Richard? That these people don't know any better is no reflection on your abilities as a photographer. It simply accentuates their ignorance.
I do credit luck with helping greatly on many of my images, but I also feel it was on me to take advantage of it, and make the best possible use of it.
My second highest score ever, and I wasn't even going to enter the challenge. But when I saw Lenny buried in the guts of this tractor, I ran and grabbed my camera as fast as I could.
Oh, yeah.......I couldn't have done it without my new D7000. How about a blue ribbon at 1000 ISO, huh? LOL!!!
