historically - has the mutation rate sped up over time ?
your number example seems logical enough - where the virus would mutate/evolve at a much faster rate than a human - but w/o some background stats they are just static stats.
my question is - by vaccination are we speeding up the mutation process of the virii we're trying to fend off ?
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
It's well understood. These viruses don't have many genes to maintain the fidelity of the genome. The quick numbers I found were a base-pair mutation rate of about 2 base pairs in 10,000. By example, the human base-pair mutation rate is somewhere in the range of 1 to 9 per billion base pairs.
Decent question. I don't know the answer, but I don't think "virii" is a word... ;)
Originally posted by soup:
historically - has the mutation rate sped up over time ?
your number example seems logical enough - where the virus would mutate/evolve at a much faster rate than a human - but w/o some background stats they are just static stats.
my question is - by vaccination are we speeding up the mutation process of the virii we're trying to fend off ?
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
It's well understood. These viruses don't have many genes to maintain the fidelity of the genome. The quick numbers I found were a base-pair mutation rate of about 2 base pairs in 10,000. By example, the human base-pair mutation rate is somewhere in the range of 1 to 9 per billion base pairs.
Nobody's asking me, but if they were I'd say that the problem with using antibiotics for a viral infection is that people stop taking the medicine when they feel better, leaving some of the pills in the bottle. They don't know the medicine is killing bacteria like staph & strep & when you take only some of the pills then the only bacteria left are the resistant bacteria. The ones you really don't want. Next time you get another cold, you remember that left-over prescription, take some of those until you feel better, & further strengthen the population of bacteria in your system. Then wa-la you have antibiotic-resistant bacteria running wild in hospitals.
There. The pandemic of 1918-19 was horrible. We are the descendants of the survivors of that pandemic. [eta] The National Guard or the Army that shows up during a natural disaster like a flood or hurricane is the same National Guard or Army that would have to show up during a pandemic, to keep order. It's all very depressing. I hope I'm not wearing a face mask to work in November. If I still have a job, that is.
Nobody's asking me, but if they were I'd say that the problem with using antibiotics for a viral infection is that people stop taking the medicine when they feel better, leaving some of the pills in the bottle. They don't know the medicine is killing bacteria like staph & strep & when you take only some of the pills then the only bacteria left are the resistant bacteria. The ones you really don't want. Next time you get another cold, you remember that left-over prescription, take some of those until you feel better, & further strengthen the population of bacteria in your system. Then wa-la you have antibiotic-resistant bacteria running wild in hospitals.
I think the bigger problem is people taking antibiotics for a viral infection AT ALL. It won't do a THING against the virus but can mess up the body's natural bacterial balance.
Nobody's asking me, but if they were I'd say that the problem with using antibiotics for a viral infection is that people stop taking the medicine when they feel better, leaving some of the pills in the bottle. They don't know the medicine is killing bacteria like staph & strep & when you take only some of the pills then the only bacteria left are the resistant bacteria. The ones you really don't want. Next time you get another cold, you remember that left-over prescription, take some of those until you feel better, & further strengthen the population of bacteria in your system. Then wa-la you have antibiotic-resistant bacteria running wild in hospitals.
I think the bigger problem is people taking antibiotics for a viral infection AT ALL. It won't do a THING against the virus but can mess up the body's natural bacterial balance.
And then, there's the pernicious problem of prophylactic antibiotics. I can't successfully say that out loud. Too many syllables.
add to that using them on the domesticated animals we eat - it's doubly bad.
what we are doing - in a scientific manner - is providing an incubation tank for the very same viruses we are trying to control. and letting the animal versions adapt and mutate, and become stronger.
antibiotics are over used - it's proven.
giving them to animals - well - who'd of thought - it would result in them being less and less effective ?
i'm going to go find a pig and kiss it deep and with my tongue...
messing with the survival of the fittest - rule - is a bad bad thing.
Considering that my husband has rocky mountain spotted fever. Considering that untreated, it has a 30% mortality rate. I like antibiotics. Are the being over-prescribed? Yes. Are they probably being over-prescribed for rocky mountain spotted fever? yes--urgent care prescribed them early--they didn't wait for the week long test. Was this good? yes, in my husband's case. Instead of having to be hospitalized, like a large fraction of the cases--he was just very sick.
add to that using them on the domesticated animals we eat - it's doubly bad.
what we are doing - in a scientific manner - is providing an incubation tank for the very same viruses we are trying to control. and letting the animal versions adapt and mutate, and become stronger.
antibiotics are over used - it's proven.
giving them to animals - well - who'd of thought - it would result in them being less and less effective ?
i'm going to go find a pig and kiss it deep and with my tongue...
messing with the survival of the fittest - rule - is a bad bad thing.
Considering that my husband has rocky mountain spotted fever. Considering that untreated, it has a 30% mortality rate. I like antibiotics. Are the being over-prescribed? Yes. Are they probably being over-prescribed for rocky mountain spotted fever? yes--urgent care prescribed them early--they didn't wait for the week long test. Was this good? yes, in my husband's case. Instead of having to be hospitalized, like a large fraction of the cases--he was just very sick.
Glad to hear they caught that early, it's pretty nasty. Did he contract that from a tick bite?
Well gang...Jazz Fest is in it's 2nd weekend here in New Orleans. Thursday...Friday...Saturday....one GIANT incubator for the Flu ! People from all over the country and the world are here. On any given day there will be up to 100,000 people at the fest....a flu paradise !
add to that using them on the domesticated animals we eat - it's doubly bad.
what we are doing - in a scientific manner - is providing an incubation tank for the very same viruses we are trying to control. and letting the animal versions adapt and mutate, and become stronger.
antibiotics are over used - it's proven.
giving them to animals - well - who'd of thought - it would result in them being less and less effective ?
i'm going to go find a pig and kiss it deep and with my tongue...
messing with the survival of the fittest - rule - is a bad bad thing.
Considering that my husband has rocky mountain spotted fever. Considering that untreated, it has a 30% mortality rate. I like antibiotics. Are the being over-prescribed? Yes. Are they probably being over-prescribed for rocky mountain spotted fever? yes--urgent care prescribed them early--they didn't wait for the week long test. Was this good? yes, in my husband's case. Instead of having to be hospitalized, like a large fraction of the cases--he was just very sick.
Glad to hear they caught that early, it's pretty nasty. Did he contract that from a tick bite?
Yup. He had 5 deer ticks on him after a camping weekend. Ticks are part of camping and 5's not that many. The urgent care in Virginia says that they're getting 4 positive test a week for lymes and 1 a week for rocky mountain spotted fever. I had no idea it was so prevalent here.
vawendy I'm happy your husband had the care he needed for rocky mountain spotted fever. My life wwas saved by penicillin when I was a little kid & I'm grateful. Now, we have to feed antibiotics to high density populations of feedlot animals in an effort to keep them alive & reasonably healthy until they are slaughtered. I've read that a high concentration of pigs, chickens, & people together because of WWI is what created the virus that caused the first flu pandemic. Only then, nobody knew what it was. Now, we do. There have been 2 suspected cases (preschool age kids, neither of whom have been to Mexico) of swine flu in my little town & all the schools are closed (for now, until Monday) while they wait to see what happens next.
There have been 2 suspected cases (preschool age kids, neither of whom have been to Mexico) of swine flu in my little town & all the schools are closed (for now, until Monday) while they wait to see what happens next.
Our school nurses have been calling the homes of students out sick and grilling them about swine flu. No doubt many thousands of students will be affected within the next week as schools are closed over colds or regular flu if there's any suspicion of swine flu. It's an interesting mix of prudence and mass hysteria.
There have been 2 suspected cases (preschool age kids, neither of whom have been to Mexico) of swine flu in my little town & all the schools are closed (for now, until Monday) while they wait to see what happens next.
Our school nurses have been calling the homes of students out sick and grilling them about swine flu. No doubt many thousands of students will be affected within the next week as schools are closed over colds or regular flu if there's any suspicion of swine flu. It's an interesting mix of prudence and mass hysteria.
It's definitely interesting. Around here, if you go in suspecting the flu, you get seen by one of a few dozen walk-in clinic doctors that are over-worked that just do a base check of vitals and a look in the throat and then they prescribe tylenol or neo-citran and send you on your way, if you're not on death's door.
I've never, once, in the history of having the flu, ever had a swab or culture taken for testing. How do they expect to find anything? lol.
I'm also sick right now, but is it the flu? Who knows. I'm not going to go sit for 6 hours in a waiting room to be told it's 'just the flu, go home and get some rest and drink plenty of fluids' by someone trying to get through as many people as they can in one day.
ETA: Especially if sitting in that waiting room for 6 hours has a real chance of infecting me with a bad flu to begin with. lol.
Well gang...Jazz Fest is in it's 2nd weekend here in New Orleans. Thursday...Friday...Saturday....one GIANT incubator for the Flu ! People from all over the country and the world are here. On any given day there will be up to 100,000 people at the fest....a flu paradise !
You've got that right! Sixty-two cases of flu-like illness being studied statewide here today.
The classic triad of influenza is fever, cough, coryza (basically nose symptoms). Muscle aches is a fourth but isn't always present. Most colds don't come with a good fever and cough isn't always an issue with them either.
The classic triad of influenza is fever, cough, coryza (basically nose symptoms). Muscle aches is a fourth but isn't always present. Most colds don't come with a good fever and cough isn't always an issue with them either.
Yah, I just have a cold. Actually, it's probably just my usual sinus issues that plague me twice a year. I just felt like bagging on our medical system a bit. lol.
I havent seen this posted anywhere else in this thread, but regular flu kills 50,000+ each year around the world.. 160 (so far) or so is a piss in the ocean in comparison..
